Feb 06, 2015

The Church Rising (#472)

She is rising from all the places where she has long been hidden, revealing the Father's glory through a growing community of those who know they are deeply loved by God. The journey to discover her may not be short or easy, but it is worth very lesson life has dealt us. The podcast begins with a couple of more comments to wrap up the last two weeks discussing homosexuality and includes an amazing clip from a young woman who shares her example of dealing with her sexual attraction inside her relationship with Jesus. Then Wayne turns to a variety of listener input about the frustration of seeking an enduring reflection of Christ's church in the world. While we are may all be in different stages of seeing into that reality, he reads an inspiring poem that prophetically speaks to the Father's work in calling out his church to take her place in the world.

Podcast Links:
Freedom Through Constraint by Julie Rodgers
An Open Letter to All the People Writing...About What's Wrong with the Church by Whitney Capps
A copy of the poem about The Church Rising
Our latest update from Kenya
Add your voice to our question/comment line: (805) 539-6980 or Skype us at "TheGodJourney"

Podcast: Download

Subscribe: RSS

I appreciate the gentle way in which you handled the subject of sexuality, Wayne. What I think Jeff and likely others want to hear is that you affirm their attraction and that you don’t believe it’s a sin. What I heard you dance around, and in the most loving way possible, say, is that you do believe it is a sin. I don’t fault you for that, in the least. What I think I heard you trying to get at, though, is that sin isn’t really the point. I think you were trying to get at the idea that brokenness is a human condition, not just a condition of those who do certain things, or have certain attractions that make us uneasy. How that brokenness manifests itself is not for us to spend a great deal of time debating, or considering how to engage with people that do certain things, or have attractions that we believe offend God. The fact is; we are all broken. We are not broken because of sin; we sin because we have brokenness.

It’s at this point that the heart of the person with same sex attraction wants to hear whether one believes their same sex attraction is a condition of their brokenness, or not. Unfortunately, the answer is not an easy one. Are same sex relationships God’s intent for loving relationships between two people? I think the Bible is pretty clear that the answer is, no. Does this automatically make it a sin? I can’t honestly say. Here’s why. Homosexuality in the Bible was a violation of a person’s humanity, rather than a loving expression, one person to another. The Bible is quite silent on the issue of loving, same sex relationships. Again, though, I believe trying to determine whether it is a sin misses the point. I think the biggest way in which Christianity has failed, is in the lifting up of “morals” and the stomping under foot, a relationship with Papa. In doing so, we have made ourselves little gods; leading generations of people away from the one true God, who loves us unconditionally and wants to lavish us with His grace and mercy, which results in lives that manifest Him, not in how well we follow the rules, but in how our lives are healed from brokenness and naturally bear His fruit.

5 Comments

Kevin says:
2/6/2015 at 11:19 am ,
I appreciate the gentle way in which you handled the subject of sexuality, Wayne. What I think Jeff and likely others want to hear is that you affirm their attraction and that you don’t believe it’s a sin. What I heard you dance around, and in the most loving way possible, say, is that you do believe it is a sin. I don’t fault you for that, in the least. What I think I heard you trying to get at, though, is that sin isn’t really the point. I think you were trying to get at the idea that brokenness is a human condition, not just a condition of those who do certain things, or have certain attractions that make us uneasy. How that brokenness manifests itself is not for us to spend a great deal of time debating, or considering how to engage with people that do certain things, or have attractions that we believe offend God. The fact is; we are all broken. We are not broken because of sin; we sin because we have brokenness.
It’s at this point that the heart of the person with same sex attraction wants to hear whether one believes their same sex attraction is a condition of their brokenness, or not. Unfortunately, the answer is not an easy one. Are same sex relationships God’s intent for loving relationships between two people? I think the Bible is pretty clear that the answer is, no. Does this automatically make it a sin? I can’t honestly say. Here’s why. Homosexuality in the Bible was a violation of a person’s humanity, rather than a loving expression, one person to another. The Bible is quite silent on the issue of loving, same sex relationships. Again, though, I believe trying to determine whether it is a sin misses the point. I think the biggest way in which Christianity has failed, is in the lifting up of “morals” and the stomping under foot, a relationship with Papa. In doing so, we have made ourselves little gods; leading generations of people away from the one true God, who loves us unconditionally and wants to lavish us with His grace and mercy, which results in lives that manifest Him, not in how well we follow the rules, but in how our lives are healed from brokenness and naturally bear His fruit.
Ron says:
2/7/2015 at 8:56 am ,
As I read your comments Kevin, two comments about sin from two prominent pastors I’ve followed in the past come to mind…
1) We’re all sinners, except on different subjects.
2) As a Christian, we are not sinless, but we sin less.
Where many, if not most Christians, in my opinion, have made a grave error regarding homosexuality as sin is that they regard it as a special category above other sins. But First Corinthians 6:9-10 doesn’t make that distinction…
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And generally Christians that condemn certain sins, most certainly aren’t committing the same sins themselves, or are in denial.
If I can accept that I am a sinner saved by God’s love, no matter what sins I have committed, it becomes easier for me to love others, no matter what sins they have committed.
Bob says:
2/9/2015 at 4:24 pm ,
It’s tragic when Christians become mean over differences of opinion or understanding. As a new believer back in the 70’s I saw a tremendous meanness among many over the issue of speaking in tongues. Since the election of Barack Obama as president I have observed another meanness among Christians, this time over politics. And now how we feel about homosexuality is sometimes bringing out this same ugliness. When are we going to start being known for our love for one another, even where we have strong disagreements, because of our oneness in Jesus.
Steve says:
2/9/2015 at 9:50 pm ,
Regarding the voice message from “Eric” in San Gabriel: this is Steve, also from San Gabriel. I’ve listened to Wayne (and Brad’s) podcast for a few years now, and if you’re looking for somebody local to talk with about some of your own journey, leave a comment here or let Wayne know.
Judy says:
2/12/2015 at 8:27 am ,
Wayne thank you for continuing the Podcasts. I listen and have been listening for the past 3 years and have enjoyed the encouragement from the archived podcasts as well. I listened to a presentation that was mostly about rehab for people who are recovering from brain injuries. The speaker was the administrator of the facility. Well I know by now you are saying ok….. So??
Well he said something that has really stayed with me. Every day he goes to work and cares for these most unfortunate survivors if strokes or trauma. He said it is most important to realize that we are all people it’s not “us” or “them”; they are us. That opened my eyes to see things in a different way. So I guess what I’m trying to get at is as you always say we live in a broken world and we all face our own brokenness that Jesus and Father know and understand. Even when we can’t face our own broken areas we hopefully can grow into that reality of living like loved children. Listening to these podcasts and reading your books have really helped me care and accept others where they are and try to let go of my own opinions and judgements. It’s actually a relief to know that we aren’t in control. Thanks again Wayne for your transparency and honesty.

Comments are closed.