The End of Religion
This is part two of a conversation Wayne had with Bruxy Cavey, author of The End of Religion, and Sean Davidson, a member of the staff at The Meeting House where Bruxy is the teaching pastor. They began last week talking about the reality of relationship Jesus extends to us. Now they plunge into a conversation about religion, systems, structure, and spontaneity and how they play out in our walk with Jesus and our connections with the fellowship of believers. They talk about the difference between doing tasks God puts on our hearts, and building structures that all too often outlive their usefulness. Though Wayne and Bruxy live in very different expressions of these realities, they were able to talk about those differences in an enlightening conversation.
Podcast Links:
Bruxy's Blog and The Meeting House website where he is the teaching pastor.
Bruxy's book, The End of Religion: Encountering the Subversive Spirituality of Jesus
Sean Davidson at the Meeting House
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Hey Folks,
just some thoughts of mine on this one…. i am struggling with the fact that most conversations are based on LEAVING RELIGION and so on , i understand that everybody who has inklings in their hearts and many people that have faith need some support and encouragement, as humility is at my door and very comfortably walked through it i have realized that habits can occur and can occur quite often.
In having said that i had just wondered who called religion, religion what makes religion, religion did god say don’t be religious for us to say wow that was religious, or gee he just had a religious experience , how on earth would we know what it is…… i have had thoughts on this to be honest just today and as i talk just now….. is the word religious really meant to say and mean rebellious… the reality that i have recently come to is more or less maybe a break through for me or a lesson for me but as i look back on my walk with father i have not chosen to be rebellious i have chosen to listen and except that god has much in store for me than to worry about being religious or in my thoughts (ATM) Rebellious .. we all have this quick to jump attitude that god might be calling us to DO something or go to church eeehhhh!!!!(buzzer sound) i think thats god trying to let us know trust me but you can choose to be rebellious(religious) or choose to trust me, i am really drawn to what outcome may come of this but i am having serious thought about whatever out come may come of this but looking at being religious may cause ppl to panic and well probably be religious rather than looking at the full truth of the matter as it may be rebellious<<<< which will lead to the love you have for your father and lead you to the humility that he wants you have as a beloved son…. i am always drawn to say father in our love and relationship i will choose not to rebel and walk a path that may be only mine, than not to go in it with you how much that would hurt you not only you but will effectivley hurt me, father our love and relationship is better than to worry about religion and for me to be rebellious together we are greater and much loved.
any way i could go on and on.
love yas and leave yas
your loving brother phil 😉
I really liked the podcasts, and I like much of what Bruxy has to say.
It is clear he has a heart to serve God and his club seems to be a blessing to many.
I does appear, however, for a fellow who wrote about the end of religion, like he has just relabeled it. His “we are not a mega church with home groups, we are a home church with a mega meeting on Sundays (to paraphrase)” seems like a play on words.
If you are finding life with a group of believers in a large meeting house, more power to you. But at least be honest about what you have created. How this differs from the organizations many of us were part of, remains unclear to me.
As far as i understand you Timothy i think by your last sentences you are trying to say why create an organization to come away from an organization in my understanding?. If i am miss understood please correct me on that? , but i strongly agree that there is always this sense of having to do something , why cant we just be with god and listen to what he has to say and trust him rather than making a big thing about it all the time. As i believe God has asked us to wait on an opportunity, not try and ORGANIZE OR MAKE the opportunity to help someone. know one never stops to think if this is really what god may be saying BUT remember we do have an enemy that will try and divert us away from what god is really trying to say. We can very easily be put off and be deceived, not to say that we have a desire to help people and love people. We can do whatever we like as long our father is with us and our hearts are in the right place but to make things alot easier all god is trying to say is do what you desire as long as your heart is there and your humbled attitude is there along with trust if this is an encouragement to people awsome coz that was my aim 🙂 if anything i hope people have some feed back coz i would muchly enjoy having a chat and getting to know some fellow believers 🙂
cheers guys
phil
I enjoyed this podcast-it was actually my “church service” for the day. What draws me to this website and these discussions is the sense that most Churches/Organizations have an Agenda that they want to drive and want everyone to come along and sooner or later that Agenda becomes the ultimate driving force for all things. But I think Jesus was simpler than this….he is labeled the Good Shepherd; and asked Peter 3 times to “feed (take care of the needs of )the sheep at all levels. But I dont see anyone really spending time with the sheep and really listening to their fears/concerns/struggles and ministering to those; but rather every Church/Organization/System gathers to figure out the Agenda and then Preach/Teach that Agenda to the followers and it works (for awhiie) for a small percentage -maybe 10-20% of those followers who can keep up with the “Spiritual Level” of the Agenda thats being driven. But what about the other/greater 80% who have Unique (Fearfully and Wonderfully Made) Issues; scars; wounds; frustrations and habits/addictions and stresses of life who eventually come to a point where they feel lost because they cannot keep up with The Agenda…who not Jesus leave the 99 to go after the 1 lost one? What happens is the Agenda keeps going; new people come in for awhile; others usually get offended or fall short of the Spiritual Mark being left by the Agenda and fade away….so I’m not sure Anybody’s doing it right unless they sacrifice the Agenda to spend time w the Sheep and truly minister to their wounds; needs ; desires and stresses; failures and successes. Show me That-And I say you’ve got the Real Deal…. joe
When i was attending Sunday morning services it was always a lesson on what we were doing wrong. I felt i had to be perfect. It was always so disheartening. One week the sermon would be on how we should be tithing 10 percent and if we weren’t, God couldn’t bless us. Then once i started titihing i didn’t have enough money to pay all my bills and i began to worry about money and i started working more hours. Then the next series of messages on Sundays would be how we are not supposed to worry because God was working everything out and we should focus on serving others cuz thats what Jesus did. so i would work extra hours to pay the bills and try to go around and serve others and i was leaving my children home while i would go out to serve others. Then the next series of messages at church would be how we are too busy and we don’t spend enough time with our families and with God. I could go on and on but i would always try to do what they said and i was slowlly dying inside. I could never do enough or be enough! My self-esteem was crushed! Then God brought the shack and he loves me and SYDWGTC into my life. I cried and cried. I’m not sure i can ever go back to and institution again. It robbed me of my life.
I was interested in how this discussion would go down, as there are obvious differences in the God Journey way and and the Meeting House way. Kudos to all for keeping this more about sharing different perspectives rather than making it a competition of methodologies. 🙂
I checked out the Meeting House web site and although wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea, I applaud them for thinking outside the usual box, I wouldn’t say it’s a “Church for people who don’t want to go to church”, but perhaps a “Church for people who are fed up with church but don’t know what else to do.” My wife and I have certainly been there, and it might have been nice to have this sort of option to transition to, even if we eventually moved on.
So hearing you Tricia. Each to his own, but I didn’t buy the propaganda that dude was selling. We’ve got to have structure because even families have structure when they meet for dinner – he said. Fiddle faddle. Many families literally just get together! That seems a tenuous justification to me. What structure did Jesus have? God’s community is a family i reckon, not a club or organization. You can relax and just be yourself within a loving family. You can share your dreams and insecurities and be honest within a loving family. I have only been part of one church that came close to that.
It seems to me that as soon as you have structure, formality enters and the bigger it gets the less u feel like being yourself, because that is just not good enough.
I’m moved muchly by all of your stories 🙂 I love hearing them lets me know that I most decently am not alone 🙂
Wow guys, I hate to say it but can’t quite swallow most of this. For the most part, seems like regurgitated “religion”, “church” and “christianity” (obedience). Come on guys, let’s stand before our Creator and mankind as free-willed beings made in His image to freely love and be loved. May we thrive in His amazing grace living in intimacy rather than performance. Please don’t try to paint a picture of the life of another. For HE alone is the Master and will complete His work in spite of us. Thankfully, Gman.
I enjoyed this podcast, as I have many others. I heard one thing that I really needed to hear and ponder on the End of Religion podcast. I am an introvert temperament and my natural response to what I dislike of church life is to just quit attending and isolate myself. I am fortunate to have an extrovert husband who has to have people around him, thus I stay connected to many people, and deep down I know they are important to my life. You said you can choose the mature way to be ‘unchurched’ (my word, not yours) or the immature way. Isolating would be the immature way. I have finally come to terms with feeling rebellious to the system, but now I have to find God’s ‘mature’ way for me to be part of HIS church. I know after many years of searching my heart, I am not rebellious but an individual that needs to find what works for me when interacting with the corporate church. Because of my introvert nature, I ask God every day to help me be a blessing to someone in my workplace, the gathering my husband has dragged me to, or in my family, who really deserve the best me God can make me. We are in changing times in America. Thank you for offering your help and support to others trying to find their way.
The discussion on ministries finishing and closing down reminded me of Paul Vieira. He is another Canadian. He actually did shutdown a ministry at its peak of “success”. He tells the story in his book “Jesus Has Left the Building”
Your means of describing the whole thing in this piece of writing is actually pleasant, every
one be able to effortlessly be aware of it, Thanks
a lot.