Taking Shame Out of Sexuality (#551)
WARNING: Be advised that this podcast is a frank and perhaps for some a controversial conversation about sexuality. The sex lady returns to discuss some of your questions and comments from our earlier podcast. Wayne and Brad continue their frank and sometimes explicit conversation with Tracy Levinson, author of Unashamed: candid conversations about dating, love, nakedness, and faith, about a grace-based approach to sexuality in a variety of contexts. They talk about how to deal with sexual issues with children and how we can teach them modesty and restraint, without tainting their sexuality with fear or shame, and where we may have failed sexually or been taken advantage of how to be at peace with God. They also talk about masturbation and its impact on healthy sexuality, but not as a sin that will disconnect your relationship with God. They also help explore how a couple can communicate more effectively about their frequency, turn-ons and sort through the places where it has caused pain or disappointment. h or disconnect you from God as you deal with it.
Podcast Notes:
Original Podcast with Tracy
unashamed: candid conversations about dating, love, nakedness and faith
Tracy's website
Wayne's review of Tracy's book
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Hmmm… I’m having mixed emotions as I’m listening to today’s podcast with Wayne, Brad, and Tracy Levinson. When I saw today’s podcast topic “Taking Shame Out Of Sexuality” I couldn’t wait to get home to download and listen to it… and now… my eyes are squinty as I try to make sense of what’s been shared. Many things were dead on and then there were other statements that smack (to me) of unenlightened religiosity and my struggle is to decipher what God wants me to hear from people I respect very much. While it may be the “way” I’m hearing them but a lot of what I heard seemed like they were “opinions of christian married people” with a little dusting of black or whiteness – either/or type of opinions. I heard conclusions being drawn based of a tab bit of old religious performance… ie; if you’re masturbating it means you’re not close enough to God… or you’re in pain… or you’re lonely…. all of which would be “fixed” if you were closer to God. I will revisit this to see if I’ll “hear” things differently later but for now I have to say… I’m a bit disappointed in what I’m viewing as a lack of understanding or as the typical “opinions of christian married people”.
I agree with Bob Leonardy, but he said it nicer. I saw so much guilt in this podcast, possibly more than in all the other podcasts combined, that I have listened to.
Nudity does not cause lust. I like this link: https://phiferblog.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/on-sexual-lust-or-the-problem-isnt-in-your-eyes-or-my-body/
I am a widower. My wife died just over 7 years ago. I have not had sex sense. I have not even had a date. What my wife and I had was so precious I can’t find anyone I can trust with my heart. I am trying to not compare, but . . . My wife and I were both naturists (aka nudists) and belonged to the North Texas Christian Naturist group. I have participated in 4 nude 5ks this year and I have not noticed anyone lusting. With nude males it is obvious when one is lusting.
My doctor told me that I should have sex due to my elevated PSAs (enlarged prostate). She asked me if I was having sex regularly and I quipped “only with my right hand”. She smiled. I do not have to lust in order to masturbate. Lusting is a choice and it has nothing to do with prayer and being closer to God. Most of the people in the 4 nudist resorts in north Texas are not christians and they have no problem with control. Children who are raised in nude households have an easier time with sexual control than their peers who are never nude (except for sex).
I have a lot more links if you would like to see them email me direct guys and gal.
Jerry Sledge
Mmmm… I heard something completely different than Bob did.
There were a few “jokes” that were reminiscent of adolescent boys whispering and giggling in the background over some sexual secret they were sharing. It sort of felt contrary to the point of the conversation about overcoming shame. Not sure exactly what was happening there, and I certainly do not want to shame anyone. And they did make me laugh. 🙂
I found some of the examples of openness between couples and sex as worship not to be new concepts for me, but challenging none the less as they reminded me how far I still have to go on this journey towards wholeness in this area of my life. It is good to keep talking about it. Our sexuality is such a defining part of our being.
I also appreciate your ongoing willingness to have such an open conversation and to remind us to invite Jesus into the middle of it rather than it being an exercise in behaviour modification. The teaching on grace and the forgiveness of Christ for all sin is such a life-giving breath of fresh air every time I hear it. So thanks for that. Looking forward to next week’s podcast.
Alex D
This podcast was spot on. It is noteworthy that when Adam and Eve fell, not only shame came upon them for their nakedness (not from God, but their own hearts condemned them), but the ability to reproduce was greatly damaged. Not only did women now bear children with great pain, and man had to struggle to live, but for men sexuality died from its relational design and degenerated into self gratification. Brad was spot on to say that masturbation is a relational dysfunction. Tracy joked that a married couple is a threesome. Men would be well advised that masturbation is also a twosome – the man and God.
Sexual intercourse is a covenant act, not a recreational activity. God is so good that he made the covenant act extremely pleasurable. Sadly for many men, even in Christ, it is difficult to experience the covenant with one’s spouse the way that God had designed it.
A good book on this topic of sex as a covenant was written by Sheila Cooley called, “Why the Hymen”, wherein she compares the covenant Abram made with God when he sacrificed the animal in Genesis 12 and passed through the flesh.
I am going to have to agree with Bob and Jerry, as much as I have enjoyed downloading the podcasts and as much as there were many wonderful things said in this episode.
First of all, the word modesty as it’s used to refer to dress in Christian circles these days means something different in the Bible, having to do with one’s inner development and character. Appropriate dress is really a matter of teaching your daughters to value themselves so they won’t need to show themselves off for boys.
Second, while I agree that masturbation can become sin for many people with all the accompanying things the three of them talked about, for me, especially since I have started seeing people (especially women) as Christ sees them, I have found masturbation to be more about working out what I am into sexually and an act of thinking about how I am going to treat my future wife, whoever she may be.
Also, sex actually is for pleasure, as well as procreation and emotional release. If it isn’t, why do women have a clitoris?
An interesting article. https://phiferblog.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/on-sexual-lust-or-the-problem-isnt-in-your-eyes-or-my-body/
Jerry, I read the articIe you referenced and especially liked the line “You see, to indulge in the thinking at either end of this continuum (see above) is to think – and therefore behave – askew.”
That was a great article with lots of good links.