"All healing involves discomfort—but so does refusing to heal." So writes Resmaa Menakem in his book, My Grandmother's Hands, which Wayne and Sara have just finished reading. The book is about healing from traumatic pain, especially around trauma related to race. Quotes from the book draw Wayne and Klye into a discussion about clean pain and dirty pain as they apply to emotional hurt and wounds. Our responses or reactions to our own pain can either put more hurt in the world, both for ourselves and others, or our responses to pain can promote healing. The difference is whether we come at healing from an agitated state or from a calm, settled body, which we can find in the peace and presence of Jesus. This also points out why our society cannot have a reasoned, healing conversation about race today—both sides come at it from agitation and frustration.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• My Grandmother's Hands
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

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